Asx Day Trader, Nick Fabrio (Net Profit: $1,000,000+)
Asx Day Trader, Nick Fabrio (Net Profit: $1,000,000+)
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so you went to the casino last night I did yes how’d you go at poker a bit better than I went trading this week so yeah I think I’m I might even just give up on my trading crier and switched a professional poker player have you played a bit of poker that’s something you do have seriously not really like I usually just have a few beers and play with I know how to play yeah Roy Allen sound like particularly good but yeah yeah I roll the table no no the high roller table cool man so before we get into any other trading stuff let’s chat a bit about what you were doing beforehand that leading up to that because I know some of the things you were doing were I think very interesting and it says a lot about your character sure I don’t recall if it was you were running the the yogurt shop before yeah so I ran I guess to Ray once out of high school actually wanted to be a doctor right what sort of doctor yeah I hadn’t really decided I just wanted to do medicine was something that interested me and I got like the marks that I needed to in like this one aspect but then like a university entrance thing I didn’t get in like with the I think it’s called a unit or something I just just missed out on getting the marks there so I went to university and some like I guess separate course I think it was like diagnostic radiography or something like that and then realized that had no clue like what physics was right so I dropped out of that within like four weeks and then start actually started working at the casino at Star City yeah and then I figured out that waking up to am driving into the casino to work for eight hours wasn’t my thing either so um was a question if was it yeah yeah so 4 a. m. to midday was my shift and we’re into midday rush yeah I’d have to wake up at like 2 a. m. and then I’d get home like having microsleeps behind Hill Hill almost and then sleep and you know just really bad like especially is a 19 18 year old like you have no social life so yeah get that away and then I was selling cars for a bit and then I got a job at like a guess what you’d call a boutique stock broking firm did that for a little while and then once I quit there I started a business with one of my mates it was like a we just started our own frozen yogurt shop so we thought that might be the next big thing that turned out to be a fad yeah just going back to the dealing at the roulette table yep what was that like like was it bit of an eye opener I imagine like those people who work behind the at the tables in the casinos you know they must see some yeah I mean you it’s it’s kind of depressing because no one’s winning right like sweeping away everyone’s chips and they just like hate you yeah so yeah it’s it wasn’t like the greatest atmosphere plus you know there’s no clocks you don’t really know what’s going on the only good thing about it was like you worked for one hour and then you’ve got like 15 minutes of break and it was free food in there like back of house area so I think that was one of the perks but right yeah once the food gets old yeah yeah it’s good for about a week yeah yeah yeah yeah comments so after that you went to selling cars selling cars yeah how did that work we car salesmen or we do something else yeah I was car salesmen so I kind of had a have always had an interesting cars I used to go with my dad to like Bathurst and go to all those races and stuff so I guess selling cars like made sense to me and I was pretty yeah I was pretty good at it like its selling stuff okay um what sort of cars be Dylan are selling Kia Chrysler Jeep and Dodge all right I guess back in those days selling Kia’s wasn’t the easiest sell I think they got a bit of a better reputation now though yeah and how long do you do that for I think it was about a year maybe okay yeah and then see went from there and you did the the frozen yogurt venture yeah a little bit down the track so I did the frozen yogurt I think I was like 23 at the time and we did that for 15 months or so yeah well tell us a bit about that like how did that come about because I mean it’s pretty ballsy to just decide that you know you and your maid are gonna get some cash together and yeah open an actual shop like that has some real overheads and some real expenses that you’ve got to cover and yeah you know it’s it’s a pretty significant risk yeah yeah I guess we’re a little bit naive like thinking you know uh its retail like everyone can do it and we we probably we didn’t really understand like how horrible retail as a industry is in Australia like there’s plenty of competition plus we’re dealing in something that’s like so niche given that it’s desert ya know you don’t have desert every single day do you know what I mean so you’re dealing like trying to get people in like it’s difficult because you know even if you go out for dinner or something like you’re not always gonna have dessert afterwards it’s pretty optional yeah and it’s a little bit seasonal too like yeah imagine some of the ice cream shops down on the Corso here probably doing it tough during the winter yeah and I like will face with other challenges as well like the they were so we did in Wollongong just down the south coast and they’ll redoing the whole like main strip of Wollongong so there was a lot of like roadworks and basically they tore up the road in front of us was difficult yeah it just made a bad situation was compensated in any way for that or it’s just now cuz their pictures like ah it’s for the future you’re gonna benefit in the longer okay Bo in and hang around too so to experience it what were you doing in the business like were you sober serving customers doing a lot so I me and my mate we worked we split the shift in into so we’d work the shop would be open for twelve hours every single day so we do six six hours each Monday through Sunday and yeah was just everything so preparing the yogurt cutting up the toppings and even on the business side of things like figuring out that stuff so it was like I don’t regret doing it it was pretty rewarding like you learn quickly we won like I think I can remember I think was business of the year or something in Warren long alright that’s pretty cool yeah yeah so it was a good thing right like we had to figure out everything because it wasn’t like we took on a franchise we just started our own brand and yeah it’s kind of learnt on the gut yeah yeah and why frozen yogurt it was at the time like and I think that was really taking off okay and we thought were actually like what you weren’t traveling over to the US to see if we could like think of any concepts over there that we could bring to Australia yeah but then we like kind of got sidetracked like going out and partying instead of actually like doing any research so we kind of we already had the yogurt idea to begin with and then were like okay we’ll just do that yeah because we didn’t say anything else yeah okay now it’s funny how like so that there are certain foods and sometimes certain desserts which just become like the in thing for yeah 12 months I was definitely a fad bike I think our shop is it’s still in operation down there and it’s the only one there so I think at one point there are about four frozen yogurt shops in Wollongong and now this is the only one that made it through okay so what we did well was we made sure like we’re off we weren’t like contracted to like like a Westfield or a GPT group type thing so we were just outside the kind of shopping precinct so that meant that our rent was substantially less and that’s obviously the biggest the biggest overhead so we’re yeah the rent wasn’t Burnham’s Burlinson and that’s kind of what it gave us the ability to have that longevity I suppose and did you have to lock in a lease for a certain amount of time like usually commercial leases usually run for a couple years don’t know yeah I think we had a three year lease and maybe the last year was an option so we structured that pretty well I thought which was good and we negotiated pretty hard for like favorable terms for us okay so yeah that’s pretty cool I mean it’s a big thing to take on like I always sort of have a bit of a respect for anyone who does that yes it’s not like just done an online business where it’s like that your biggest cost is you know web hosting in your name and a few other bits there’s not like huge yes but yeah in that environment it can get pretty nasty mmm as we’re saying with liking a retail food group and some of those franchises that it just going belly up and it leaves people in some serious strife so yeah we’re lucky like we just worked hard paid off the debt and then solve the business once we saw like more entrants coming in so I just like having it a poor shoulds yeah so why did you sell the business because you’ve fear of competition fear of competition and also we’re just getting over it like we’re literally working seven days a week yeah like no breaks I think in one year I probably had like five days off or something okay and I was studying University full time so I should head okay did you have any stuff I know effectively working for free like we’re working just to pale yeah the debt yeah and yeah we just we got out I think I had like negative five hundred bucks to my name at the end of it okay so well I guess you know all in all that’s at least you weren’t under right yeah her debts and all that yeah and so what about the sale of the business like was that a win for you was that just so that that basically just paid down like the last remainder of of the debt and then so we we actually we got a broker to UM to try and sell the business and then we I’m like this guy’s like not doing anything he’s just like waiting for something to walk in and buy it and we had we paid like this listing fee and then it was gonna be like a 10% commission or something and then I’m like I’ll screw this circuit so I put advertising on gumtree myself and I sold it like with my mate I sold it to like to this guy and then we just left and then the brokers I hassling us because in the contractor was saying oh you know no matter how you sell the business he’s still owed me like a commission yeah and I was like that just rubbed me right rub me like up the wrong way like completely sir so he didn’t get paid I negotiated like like all the listing fee we paid that’s part of your commission and then we’ll just top you up to 10% or whatever it was at that point we’ll just like our like we’re just happy to have this behind us it’s almost like hush money just Shh yeah yeah no I know the feeling and then so what happened from there so you sold up the frozen yogurt business what was kind of the next step after then so then I got a job working at a company called wholesale investor so that was basically you’d get sort of pre IPO pre IPO deals and I guess present their company would present to like a bunch of high net worth or sophisticated investors so I was just doing business development work for them so that’s what you were doing yeah okay so yeah we’re on the phones just ringing up it was probably more a male base and meetings then like phone work okay yeah it wasn’t like overly like high pressure sales type thing yeah say I did that for a bit and then at that point in time I was like getting ready to go overseas to do a year of exchange so that’s kind of when the trading thing came came about obviously someone you’ve had on the podcast before Bryce we work together like probably close to 10 years ago now and he he sort of approach means I call you know you’d probably be pretty good at this like if you want to give it a go like let me know and I can help you and I was kind of like arming and iring about it because I wanted to save money so that I could go over overseas and I didn’t know if I’d like be risking that if I tried and failed but then eventually I’m just like I guess I’ve got that gambling not not gambling but like that instinct of just giving something a shot and seeing if it works yeah so I just bit the board and then yeah so I literally trading where were you and Bryce working to go at the boutique stock broking firm okay yeah yeah I thought so all right okay I didn’t realize it would have been that long ago yeah I think it would have been like 2010 2011 around them okay yeah so did you do any any good IPOs at the brokers yeah what were they were just pretty small it was like I don’t yeah they do like a few corporate deals but it was mainly like placements and stuff Ike as opposed to IPOs and it was like you know super small firm it was not like yeah they wouldn’t be doing mini IPOs okay so yes if Bryce um sort of turned you onto this trading thing had you done any trading in the past I’d like punted around when I was like in I think in high school possibly or like when I was 18 I think I bought like some Gloucester coal shares or something I had no idea what I was doing I bought them and then they got a takeover offer so it’s like this it’s pretty easy famous last words yeah and then I put like the profits from that into something else and that basically went to zero so got a reality check really quick nice yeah okay so how did you so when you started getting into trading yeah like you sort of had this idea that you know this is something I’m gonna have a go at now yeah like how did you go about that sort of how did you go in those first few months like what was sort of your I guess your introduction to it yeah my approach was like I was just trying to be a sponge like learn as much as I could off price and you know other people in the chat room that I’m in and just try and absorb and basically I got obsessed with it like it was every waking hour I’m like you know replaying stuff on spark or yeah just obsessing about it like couldn’t wait for Monday like I hated weekends okay and did you have a job at the time or was it yeah I did so the first like three months I was basically trading from work unbeknownst to my boss okay and what was your job at that time that was with wholesale invest okay yeah so there was a fair bit of downtime like it wasn’t like you had to be constantly on the phones so that kind of gave me the opportunity to to spend a bit of time doing that like I don’t even come into work at like 6 a. m. to do some of the business development work for like an hour or two mm hmm so that I could prep in the morning and then and then trade the open pretty much and then I’d yeah just go from there okay and then so you kept that up for about three months and then you gave away the job yeah well I was going to give away the job anyway as I was going overseas so yeah I’d quit and then I basically became full time like that was my job from that point so what was your experience like in those first three months like were you you profitable were you up over at the end of that those first initial three months yeah yeah so I think the first month like I might have lost about like 300 bucks or something and then the next month I think I made like 800 and then I said I would ten grand and then once I made like that 800 bucks I was like okay I’ve done this for two months now I’m like more or less break Haven I’m gonna add another ten grand just so that I could do a little bit more and then it basically kicked from there so I think the next month I did like five grand I think I did 16 and then 36 and then 65 so it ramped up like pretty quickly yeah did it ever yeah yeah not many people can say that how much like how big we trained in those first three months like how much were you you risking on a trade so when I first started out like I’ve made a post about this on Twitter about like you know leverage and risk so the way I look at things as always like you know what’s a tick value of of this trade so I sized according to that so I’d be like okay I’d try make things fairly binary it’d be like okay I’m very confident in this setup working or I’m confident but not as confident in this so then I’ll just adjust accordingly so I might in a highly confident trade I would be risking like $50 a tick on something I was less confident about it might be like 25 and then I just focused on building that up from there if that makes sense okay so if it’s if you’re saying $50 a tick let’s say you got a $10 stock okay that’s other thing so I was only trading stocks between like 30 cents and three dollars oh really yeah for obvious reasons like because you know on a ten dollar stock you might get like 50 tick move in a day for example and if you’re starting with you know 10 grand and it’s $50 a tick like you can go broke pretty quick like if it goes wrong okay so if your train a 3 3 dollar stock let’s say that what’s a tick what’s the smallest that can move it’s it’s half a cent isn’t it no it’s there you go to fall cents over two bucks there Taizo yep and then it’s half cents below two bucks down to ten cents and then it’s like point one of us in okay yeah right okay so you’re doing 50 so how many ticks would you risk on a trade ideally like zero to one so a lot of what I was doing initially was I was just purely doing much trades so I’d be leaning on like a surplus bid or something so jumping in front and then basically if I saw you know selling action like someone hitting the bid then I’ll just get out and I’d be basically out for brokerage or worst case scenario if that if it got like wiped in one go and it went offered then I pretty much just hit out straight away so can you just explain that a little more like what do you mean by you’re doing matched Rhodes so if there’s a catalyst like news for example and you see a bunch of buyers coming in and you can lean on like a similar quiddity in the bid so it might be like say 50,000 shares surplus bid once it matches then I look to jump in front side put my order higher than the indicative match price and then it would match so I’d get my fill at the match price and they’d still be a bid there so then that allows me it’s basically getting a free look at the you know next couple of seconds of action so then you might say like Oh more bidders come in at a higher price I say it’s a say it matches at two dollars fifty for example and I bought and its surplus bid you know that’s how I might jump up to like 255 for a bid and then I just sell into them or something along those lines but then if I saw like sellers coming in the book and volume being done on the bid then I’ll just hit out straightaway kind of thing okay see those very very scalp e to begin with very scalp here okay and would you trade the rest of the session or we I know I wouldn’t always trade the rest of the session out I’d always watch like I say to people work I feel like the markets like a story if you’re not watching or being observant like observant the Holt it’s like you’re missing like couple chapters of the book so if you’re trading just the open and then you come back the next day like so much stuff has happened between when you left and now like you just kind of lose this valuable information like yesterday there might have been a constant buyer at this level of those a constant seller and if you don’t know that like you find yourself in in trouble because yeah you know you don’t have the full story yeah yeah okay and doing those sort of trade so I imagine you’d only be able to take like a couple trades a day like if you’re sort of if your trade is trading the open yeah you’d probably only be able to get it like yeah like right at the beginning in the first probably three months I think I was probably only doing like three or four trades a day that could be five yeah but then you know I basically just focused purely on like this one type of setup I think that’s important for like new traders out there to just hone in on one thing that you can do and do it well and then that buys you time to figure out you know other setups that you can do so I just did that that gave me time I made money doing it but then it’s like okay the edges going away there so he start looking at at other stuff and for me that ended up being like short selling a fair bit is that what you found at the edge did start to fade away yeah it was it wasn’t as good like after a little while so I I now almost like don’t even do those trades okay yeah when you said surplus bid yeah what do you mean by that do you just mean that the the bids in the book thicker than the offers or so when when the market matches it’s like a I don’t know like the full way it works per se but it’s basically just balancing the supply at a particular price and then they’ll always be like a surplus bid or it’ll be so facade okay when it matches right so they’ll be still some volume left that hasn’t been done so it’s basically just getting on the advantageous side of that by you know queue jumping effectively okay okay so do you recall any kind of breakthrough moment during your let’s just say first 12 months of trading not really I think it was more just that feeling of like I drew down the account a little bit I think like from 10 grand I ended up down at like 80 700 bucks or something like that and then once I caught it back to 2 even I’m kind of like oh yeah I can probably do this and it’s a bit of a confidence boost bit of a confidence boost like yeah I haven’t just whittled this away and failed and then that kind of just gave me the confidence but I was pretty fearless to begin with I think I’ve always been relatively comfortable with like putting on risk whether it be you know playing poker or sports betting or something like that so I wasn’t particularly like fearful of losing money so that that helped a lot and I think that’s a lot of people don’t necessarily have that ability to be comfortable with having risk on yeah do you think there’s a way that people can become more comfortable with the idea of losing money why cuz it’s like to lose money yeah yes money yeah figure it out right yeah I mean that interview I did with Rambo recently that was one of the big things that that he really sort of sort of tried to drive home was you know dude had risen from the money yeah but it’s like easy enough to win the hardest part about trainers learning to lose crazy but you know listening back over that interview and some of the things he said it it really kind of I was like you know that’s that’s not a sense yeah yeah okay so how long have you been trading for now I just under three years so three years yeah the yeah beginning of all this will be three years for me okay and you’ve had no breaks during that time you’ve just sort of been at the market every day no I wouldn’t say that so in 2016 when I was on exchange my attention to the market I guess was a little bit patchy because I was kind of living the college experience as well uh huh and just trading when I could so I guess like once I got over there I didn’t really have any friends obviously so I was like purely focused on trading but then as I like formed a friendship group then they invite you out like ah let’s do this or you know go on a holiday or something like that then my attention to the the market kind of slipped a bit and my performance suffered as a result so if you look at my equity curve it kind of it kicks at the beginning and then when I go overseas it sort of it’s still going up but at a less steep sloes rapid rate yeah but then once I go back to Australia in January last year yeah then I was like I treated it like a job okay yeah so what is your your style of training let’s just sort of go over it’s a bit of an overview I guess yeah how would you describe your your style of trading I’d say I’m like a scalper and just trading basically off catalysts so where they’re being used or you know macro moves like that kind of stuff I have a bias towards being short I just feel like a little bit more comfortable for some reason I think one of the reasons I like it is because usually stocks sell off quicker than they then they go up so as a scalper it makes it I guess easier because you can make money quicker I guess and you don’t have to have like a lengthy exposure to the market you can be done in like five or ten minutes but that’s obviously something that I’m trying to evolve from because I’m missing out on like way bigger trades just because I’m to scalp II yeah you’re leaving a lot on the toe exactly yes so when you say scout you know mostly a scalper yeah at this point what would you say is your average kind of hold time probably 10 to 20 minutes maybe yeah like sometimes I could be out in a minute or two and then yeah sometimes I’m in for a bit longer but yeah I want to get to that point like especially in the morning where I’m holding stuff for at least an hour if it’s working in my favor okay that’s one of the things I’ve found in the mornings is that it’s very easy to give some of your profits back yeah all your profits back yeah because the market will move so quickly in one direction and then snap right back yeah you know all of a sudden you’ve gone from having a recently good profit to now back to breakeven or slightly negative trades so you know do you think that’s one of these things you can sort of get around yeah I think you’ve just got to like continue to work on it like I think the key is knowing when to hold and when not to hold and I think that’s one thing that I’m struggling with at the moment like I’m trying to hold stuff but I’m not necessarily holding stuff that I should be holding like or I’m being I’m being scalp you and I should hold and I’m holding when I should be scalp II so I think it’s yeah a big skill is being able to identify you know when it’s right to hold and when it’s not yeah yeah so I think I need to work on you know structuring things so you know I can figure out yeah okay this is a trade where I need to be holding like that or to get out I need to have a reason to sell or a reason to cover like not just doing it because I’m trading my pain our kind of thing yeah yeah so let’s let’s start at the beginning of the day like how do you prepare for the upcoming session yeah so they think I come in and I have a bunch of watch lists so I have a bunch of watch lists and then I basically I’ve got an Evernote sheet and I’ll just go in and populate I guess what the macro themes are so was the us up last night what’s a day doing what bonds do you know commodity ETFs that kind of thing so then that gives me an idea or a picture of what stocks I’m gonna be looking to trade that day and then I go through like I’ll have a list in each of the group open so five groups and I’ll have the list from yesterday and then I’ll filter through those stocks and see by looking at the market depth or do I think that this stock is going to move again today and then I keep it on the list if if I think it will and then I delete the ones that I think are probably out of play and then as news filters through in the morning at about 8: 30 then I start adding stocks back onto that list that I think might move on use okay so how many stocks would kind of be in your your watchlist by this by the time the market opens 40 probably that many yeah okay and how are you monitoring those stocks on the open like you just do just have a watchlist with the kind of you know how much each one’s moved or do you have forty different charts across you right yeah 40 different um things so I’ll just line them up on spark for each group opens I’ll have I’ve got like four screens of spark open I’ll have two stocks on each screen in each group thing and then I’ll basically just click through them as the next open phase starts so I might get on a position in Group one and and then and then I’ll just kind of keep that up in the background while I’m getting on another position and like group three or something and I kind of just like juggle them going forward just in case anyone’s not familiar with the way that ASX works or you know for any us listeners or whatever just explained the groups and the different opening times yep so there’s five groups that are just divided into alphabetical order so like Group one is stocks with tickers beginning with a or b group two is stocks with tickers that start with like see through to F and then it’s G through the I can’t remember now but yeah so it basically will then they’ll open like two minutes apart and it can open in a 30 second window so it’s the first group will open at ten o’clock and zero seconds plus or minus 15 seconds so it could open at 9: 59 and 45 seconds or at 10: 00 on the dot and 15 seconds yeah do you know why they do that no no clue I think it’s just the way the way they have always done it sir yeah I think it’s a good thing that it’s not just ten o’clock on the dot and then everything goes crazy aware you go yeah does that sometimes give you a bit of an advantage and its self like less a bit of an edge because you can do more stuff right you can look at more things because you’ve got time you don’t have to I guess prioritize as much into like one or two trades because you can do something in group one and you still have like a bit of like five minutes until you know Group four is opening or like eight minutes until the last group opens does it also potentially give you a bit of an insight let’s say let’s say a stock opens and group two that’s an oil stock and then group fun you get an indication yeah sometimes I look at that like you can probably get a read through as to what the markets thinking um so for you know an oil stock in Group one opens and it’s down five percent that the one in group five looks like it’s only gonna match down one percent you can either be like oh well maybe this one’s off too much or that one needs to sell so yeah you can play around with that do you do those sort of things or if you’ve got enough to focus on I think there’s enough to focus on where there’s better probably our probabilities but if there’s nothing doing then I might look at something like that so what are some of the things which are looking at as kind of a catalyst to decide what’s going to go on your list and now you briefly mentioned it before but yeah can we go into that a little more like what’s like why would a stock go on your watchlist like maybe just an example of um sort of one that’s been it’s on your list because of a news catalyst of some sort like yeah yeah so I’m in news by far is the the best is there any sort of news like earnings announcements are usually pretty good or like a contract wins or yeah thatthat sort of stuff really okay what about like their broker upgrades and downgrades it’s not so much news is it yeah I mean they’re good like you know the stock will usually be in play but I wouldn’t say it sounds like I make they can be powerful but then sometimes they don’t work like it’s a bit of a hidden mist type thing okay so yeah I’m not I wouldn’t say I’m like constantly trading broker calls but it just is another string to to you bow you know when there’s not much when there’s not much news then you know hopefully there might be a broker call so there’s something you can do okay and one of the things I’ve noticed is it seems like you’re quite knowledgeable about certainly not every business on the ASX but there’s a lot of businesses which you seem to know quite a bit about where I get that impression anyway like you know who the management is what they’ve done in the past who’s holding this you know when they sold their shares etc yeah do you spend a lot of time researching that sort of thing or is it just kind of I think it’s just being around it like 9 hours a day like from 7 a. m. to 4: 10 you know you just kind of pick up on things and I guess I’m kind of like a pretty cynical person so like I’m always looking for the negative in something yeah typical shorts are because of that I believe you actually got into some I’m not gonna say legal strife but you had some sort of you received a letter or some sort of notice to sort of stop a cease and desist yeah okay can you can you share that story because I don’t actually know much about it I’ve heard mentioned bits and pieces and but yeah what happened yeah so basically those this stock called get swift a fair few of the Australian like traders or investors have probably heard of it but basically I was just kind of surprised how quick this thing went up and then one night I was just bored so I um I went on my computer and like started doing a bit of research and then I just whipped up like in two hours like a four page summary of what I thought of the business and then I just posted on Twitter like this is kind of just when I’d started using Twitter I think was back in like October last year and then you had a couple people read it and then I’m like okay people seem to be interested in in the things as I go okay that’s pretty cool and then like two weeks later I get this email with a cease and desist letter from their lawyers saying that i breached like all this a sixth off and you know we’re reporting you to a sick like what you’re doing is blah blah blah i can’t remember exactly what was in the letter now so i’m just like ah crap like what’s this about like I’m just a day trader at home in my underpants you other than anyway for all this stuff so what did you think of the company like what was in this 4 page report that you put out I mean I don’t know if you can go into the details of it or yes yes I think it’s still on it might still be on my Twitter somewhere but yeah I was basically just going through because there the way they structured like their performance rights and stuff was based around you know numbers of deliveries so they’re they’re like an app I think they call themselves like the uber of delivery or like logistics or something like that so they would sign up businesses and then give them this software and they would get paid like what they said was 30 cents for every delivery that was done using their platform and they incentive or their performance rights were based on how many deliveries are doing and I didn’t think that that was right because you know if you’re a shareholder like you do you really care how many deliveries like you want to see I think it made more sense to see revenue based performance rights being granted not deliveries because if you put someone on the trial and they’re doing deliveries on the trial and they’re not paying for them or that’s a little bit deceptive mm hmm and basically a lot of their announcements were like pure spin they just I didn’t think they’ll being particularly truthful about like some of the contracts and they’re embellishing a fair bit I thought like they’re like oh this contract is gonna be worth you know 1.15 billion dollars in revenue or whatever and like since then haven’t heard a single thing about any of like any of this stuff the only announcements they’ve been coming out recently is the fact there’s like three class actions pending on them oh really yeah so was this a newly listed stock at the time I think it listed in December 2016 so it had been on when I like wrote the thing I think had been on for like nine months okay right I’m still obviously wait today yeah it went up to like 450 or something from a 20 cent IPO um and then it’s now at like 35 cents or something okay so so we assured I would short it intraday but um yeah I’d never hold it like an overnight position short you know just because like that’s one of my rules I don’t I don’t overnight that yeah really like rub rubs me up the wrong way like them trying to go legal on me so I then just went to the AFR and then gave them all because I was gonna write another report my cause in the process of writing like the more in depth and it’s a little bit more of a professional report on what I thought because I done a done more research mm hmm and then they send me this on my favorite wall I shouldn’t push down below if I’m not gonna say anything else publicly so then I just went to the AFR and said here’s all the information and then the AFR basically just went to town did they really yeah what they do right artists writing articles and then that started doing some of their own research and yeah and the whole thing blew up okay so what were they threatening like in this email that was saying like they were calling like stock price manipulation or something and yeah I was in breach of like corporations act like a bunch of these things and we’ve reported the thing to assic blah blah blah like it was pretty much as a shakedown and I just went to say a lawyer and I showed them like everything that I’d written on the internet about the company and now like I don’t think you really have anything to worry about but don’t go like poking the hornet’s nest just don’t post anything else so I’m like okay fine did you ever did you ever hear anything from assic no it was probably a bluff yeah yeah okay there must have been a bit of a red flag in itself that you know count he was coming on to you that’s strong after yes a day trader at home just exactly like if I wrote a four page research piece on Telstra I’m not getting any cease and desist letters from them they’re like well yeah you had the proof is in the pudding yeah now the Telstra’s a great stock but yeah absolutely not the point is that they’re legit you know yeah did you trade Telstra a couple weeks back after there investors meeting you know when that had that yeah unsuccessfully okay yeah how come you weren’t successful in that like I think with that because it’s like it doesn’t have huge moves and the books like so thick yes I get like a bigger position on where I might be like five hundred or a thousand dollars a tick so then like it I’m kind of like super reactive and a little bit uptight about it just because there’s like you know there might be you know five million dollars on the bed or something and that will just get instantly wiped I’m like it’s no issue kind of thing so that means your your risk is a little bit higher because it can go against you like because then you’ve got across the spread to get out again so it’s yet another thing that I need to work on but I prefer usually like a little bit less liquid less liquid stocks yeah yeah cuz I traded it that day as well and also not successfully yeah and I just feel like bit of an idiot afterwards I was like I felt really naive actually trying to trade a stock like that just because it attracts a very different sort of participant yeah and I don’t know it just was something I should have stayed out of yeah but yeah it’s not like one of my favorite stocks to trade but yeah again it’s something that I need to get better at because there’s a lot a lot of liquidity there and if you can get comfortable trade yeah on these catalysts all these news events it can be pretty profitable so yeah yeah do you find that there’s always opportunities each day and then like there’s always a catalyst or there’s always a stock in play yeah there’s always something if there’s nothing it just means you haven’t looked hard enough or you’re too hungover or something okay okay and where do you where do you get most of your information from in the morning like were you doing sort of your research and prep like there are any sites that you frequently visit or yes I’ve just got like first of all like I was saying those ATF’s and stuff into like in my iris so I just bring that up each morning helps me populate the list and then I’ll look at other stuff like investing comm is a decent one so you can get live commodity prices on there fin vis to see like what sectors moved in the US you they’ve got like a market map thing as well also the iron ore futures in the Dalian Commodity Exchange so there’s a link there that I look at but that’s pretty much it and also AFR because I’ll just peruse they afar and see what people are talking about because that can be pretty good yeah when you’re looking at these ATF’s what are you actually looking at are you just looking to see you know if the oil etf’s up three percent yes it’s more just like the magnitude of the move like okay if copper ETF is up five percent then are we looking at copper stocks to say if they they follow here okay or the lithium ETF gets smashed or something and then you you know it might look too short lithium stock so that’s kind of just one way of getting trade ideas yeah would that be enough for you to actually get involved in some copper stocks like just the fact that the copper ETF might be up five percent yeah how do you then decide which copper stocks you might actually so I’ll just look I’ll have them on my watch this and then I’ll watch just before the market opens okay if I see buyers rushing in or it looks like you know this thing wants to go just by focusing on the market depth then I’ll make a decision based on that okay and you’re obviously also taken into consideration if like how up or down when a stock might be too much so like if say the copper ETF sup you know five percent but like Oz minerals or sound fire or something is up ten percent well then I’m probably not going to buy that because I think oh well it’s probably a gapping too much to get involved yeah okay now just sort of talking about the some of the setups and strategies that you trade today yeah I noticed that most days you post something on your Twitter yeah a quick review of the day you know like a trading report yeah you often like grade your setups yeah I’m interested to just hear a bit more about how you how why you do that how that actually influences how you trade each of those setups yeah can you just share a little bit of insight yeah so do the grading that’s kind of based on around like I guess my Cabello Fiore’s I trade a review thing and then Austen Mitchum started doing doing that so then I’m like oh yeah maybe I should consider you know trying to grade or like rank what I’m doing in terms of like is this like something where I’ve got a huge edge in doing or have I taken that trade sort of a no real reason so I think it’s just important to I can internalize you know what you’re doing right and then also what you’re doing wrong and that’s kind of what the whole idea of grading the setups is about if you let’s say you have a setup which is grade a in your box and then you have one which is a see yeah how are you gonna trade each of those differently we’ll see I’m not I wouldn’t sound particularly thinking or at least I haven’t in the past been thinking about like you know is this an a plus setup like in the moment this is more like a reflective thing where I’m grading it so yeah but now what I’m trying to do is you know start to think okay like in the moment this is an A+ set off and then you know you want to be you bigger size and you probably want to hold for longer if it’s a plus let’s speak about your sizing yeah we’ll come back to this a bit more about some of your setups and your particular plays but yeah how are you sizing into your your trades like he’s still thinking about the the tick value which he spoke about you know oh they’re on or yeah so I saw is probably more around well partially around like what the tick value would be but also the liquidity around me so like I don’t want to be in something where it’s gonna move the price three cents or something before I can get out because I’m like way too big for the liquidity around me that kind of just in disaster a lot of the time so yeah I’m sizing based on how much protection I have in the book so if I’m like shorting something and I’ve got like 50,000 units you know I want to I want to see you know 70 or 80 thousand like other units offered so that I’ve got protection if the trade looks like it’s gonna go against me mm hmm so that’s kind of what I’m looking looking for mostly so it’s kind of governed by like you said what’s what’s available how much liquidity there is what’s in the book do you find an Australian market that there’s much that kind of little quiddity disappears I don’t want to say spoofing but do you find that there’s much of that like sort of the query that appears to be there but when you actually sort of come to trade it you know it’s not really there yeah as a fair bit of that I think that’s a lot of um like algos will have you know spoofed orders in there and then you see as a as it moves like it might move down and then though in the on the buy side though I moved back and but that usually like is an indication to me that there’s like a seller in this thing and they’re propping the book so that people think I’ve got plenty of protection here I can buy this kind of thing and then they step back step back so it’s a good if I say that and I’m sure it’s like something that’s going to in my mind or I should probably hold this because there’s obviously a motivated seller in here because they’re they’re propping the bedside of the book okay so will you okay so does that always seem genuine so so what you’re just saying is if you’re short there’s a big bid it let’s say five dollars and then suddenly as the price moves to that $5 thing that that $5 level that you’ll see the label it might move back to like four four ninety five or four ninety or something cutter and so you’ll if you see that sort of action that’ll you’ll tend to hold that position for a bit long yeah I want to hold it until like I say actual real buyers stepping off and then I’ll look to cover so okay so let’s go back to your kind of similar your setups or your particular plays which you like to get involved in yeah and obviously I don’t expect you to share all of them or your best ones but can you just give us an example of maybe a recent trade which maybe checked all the boxes yeah so that was that Cobb trade cobalt blue holdings which is in classed of the Wednesday before last which was truly an a plus set up for me so it was a short like major news catalyst there I’m pre feasibility study or something was being released it’s relatively illiquid so you know that you know if anyone wants to sell they’re gonna have to do it over a number of days it’s not just you know because there’s no liquidity they can’t get it out fast so they just have to keep selling keep silent keep selling so I thought that was huge potential for a big move so yeah that one checked all the boxes and I got like pretty decent size in it as well I think I was like about two thirds of the match volume and then yeah I covered way too soon so myself at the hub so that was just an intraday trade again yeah I was out in like 20 or 30 minutes so like I say all this stuff like this is one to hold they’re gonna be selling for days and there I am taking profit in 20 minutes so okay drives me mad was that something that you traded again the next day like did that stay a stock and play for yeah I traded the next day as well okay again not well okay right I still I still made money but you know again like there was no reason for me to to take profit other than like yeah yeah just I guess trading my pain oh how much was this stock like denomination wise or like was it a couple cents or no as I think it opened it 90 oh sorry 88 cents okay yeah and then I think had closed the first day at like 70 cents or something I think I covered most of my position I like 78 cents so I made like 10 cents or whatever on okay one of the thing how do you how do you control I guess this is maybe a bit of a psychology question how do you control your mindset in those types of scenarios when you’re like you know like this you had it a lot of Sighs on a really good trade went in your favor yeah you’re now looking back on it you go I took it off too early yeah how do you how do you not sort of become too caught up in that because you can I feel as though you can do that all the time what what do you mean so like in hindsight I guess I’m talking about hindsight right right like you often see a trade you got out and it kept running you’re like I should have held that yeah I should have done this or well that’s sort of thing like how do you how do you stop yourself from falling into that trap of like being too critical of yourself or yeah I guess I I think I just do fall into that right like it’s but that’s one of the great things about trading right is you’re never gonna you know trade something perfectly there’ll always be room for improvement and then for someone like who’s I probably describe myself as a bit of a perfectionist I keep some you’re me motivated to come back the next day and try perfect it then so I guess it just keeps it interesting if you keep making mistakes yeah I guess that’s the good thing about dye trainers there’s always so much happening and you can always as always each day’s a new day yeah yeah is there been any other trades recently which may be checked all the boxes again which you know was a good set up right you would take any day of the week yeah that was probably that is tea trade which I think the ASX made a mistake they released some price sensitive news as a non sensitive and I just saw it straightaway and bought and then the thing went from like I think I bought it at 70 and a half I kept adding to about seventy five cents and then it went up to like 83 cents or whatever and I held that one pretty well so yeah that I guess the catalyst there is use and I’ve just got speed of execution saw the news quickly you know shoot first ask questions later mentality what was the news on that it was just they reaffirmed their um their four year guidance and had been a stock that had like being constantly downgrading downgrading downgrading so my like quick thesis in my head was you know the down grades have stopped now so that can only be a positive thing so I was tilted like my bias was to the upside so I just bought and then yeah okay so you said I think you said you bought it 70 cents initially seventy and a half and I added so I had an average price of around 72 73 cents around that okay so how did you add going up to was it 75 cents but yeah stop doubting I just lifting offers yeah but like what the entire offer or well it wasn’t like super liquid there was a so I remember there was a drip seller at seventy and a half when the news hit so you could have got like a decent amount of liquidity on that iceberg seller and then he lifted and then once he lifted I was like ah okay so there was like maybe 50,000 shares between 70 and a half and seventy five cents so I just kept adding and I went to sell some at 74 I sold like I tried to sell maybe like 1/5 of my position there or something and I’m like crap what are you doing like this dumb so I canceled the order and then some other seller came in and I bought it again and then I added 75 I think from memory okay and what are you doing when you’re when you’re in a position like that are you just doing market orders yeah I’m doing it all manually so I’ll just have like a bunch of buy tickets up and I’m adjusting the the price yeah with it so but I’m not like not sweet I wasn’t sweeping the the order book I was just taking them as the bidders stepped up like in front mm hmm and what if that trade hadn’t worked out like what was your exit plan in that situation that was a fair bit of fair bit of liquidity there okay but I at that point like once I saw how quickly the buy stepped up like I just knew I was right it wasn’t gonna ya go down so how do you think about an exit plan like in your strategies or sorry not your strategies but in when you’re trading yeah how do you think about do use stops no it’s all like manual meant all stops I can yeah but that’s probably something I also need to start developing like thinking bigger picture and maybe preparing a little bit more before taking a trade because at the moment I’m just doing stuff like off the cuff like I see it and then I do it and I don’t really put that much thought into you know where my exit is gonna be yeah because I guess a lot of like what I do is pretty feel based and I think I need to step away from being so like feel based and more I guess structured in terms of like having a plan for what I’m doing so do you do you have a rough idea on where you’re going to stop out on a trade if it moves against you or is it again sort of dependent on Nancy in there I’ll usually just stop out of trade once but if it goes against me I’m just out it is pretty much where I that’s how I manage risk like if if I put on a trade and it doesn’t move for me straightaway I’m pretty much out yeah okay okay so if it was to just continue sideways but sort of not really come too much back you’re gonna just get rid of it I mean if it’s moving sideways and I think like there’s still potential for it to work then I might hold it but if it goes the opposite direction to the way I want it to then I’m just I’m straight up done with it and then like I can always reassess in a couple minutes or later if I still think yeah yeah the trade could work but I’d rather just get out scratch it and then start it start again and how about taking positions offer you normally sort of all out it at one price yeah that’s yeah I’m very much like I’m in the entire position like in one go and I’m out in one go as well okay which is something I should probably start you know trying to scale out of stuff but the problem is I came a bit of an adrenaline junkie so once the positions not as big as what it was then I like to lose interest oh this is boring yeah yeah right so then I’m just like oh we’ll just get rid of this do you find that you get that still in your training is a bit of a bit of a kick when you are you know when you do have a bit of size on yeah yeah definitely yes don’t feel yeah do you think that’s a good thing like does that make you perform better you think more alert or I’m definitely more alert but I wouldn’t say it makes me perform better I probably need to calm down a little bit and identify like if I’m you know feeling like a kid on Christmas that’s probably an A+ trade and I should just like relax and hold yeah so how much of your money is made in the first 30 minutes of the day probably 70 or 80% oh that much yeah really yeah like you get your odd good midday trade but I would say a lot of the yeah my best day is like I’m making most of the money in the first yeah half an hour to an hour okay yeah right and what about during the clothes like that last kind of I don’t I don’t usually take that many trades then because like I don’t know I’m just a bit tired by then because if I’m trading in the state so it’s close to midnight what’s after midnight so don’t to do anything stupid so even though you make most of your money during the open there you’re still sticking around for the rest of the day yeah I’m watching 100% hey he’s still trading during the you know after eleven o’clock yeah yeah I might be smaller and sort of then I’m looking more at you know mean reverting stuff like you know fading stuff that I think’s up too much or buying a dip or something like that which are just like you know you’re smaller like kind of income trades I guess you describe them as I could wallet patters yeah yeah yeah I like that term now I can’t remember who it was it was a few months ago you crossed a million dollars in trading profits yeah when was that he was at the beginning of middle of May and that was a and how long had you been trained at that point I mean what do I forget over two and a half years yeah yeah what was that what did that feel like when you crossed that million dollar mark it’s like I guess it’s just an arbitrary number like yeah if I mean I’m I kind of like I don’t really care that much about the money I don’t spend my money on anything other than like yeah having a good time with mates or something like that so I don’t need a million dollars so I’m just like oh okay that’s cool like I have financial freedom but it’s not like I’m yeah I wasn’t like oh yeah yeah I was like oh that’s pretty cool I imagine there must have been a point where you kind of gathered that it was only going to be a matter of time yes you did yeah I think that’s also another thing like it was just yeah a matter of time because I’ve been profitable since I started pretty much so it’s just like a matter of like when not if what do you think that is what do you think that you were able to make money so quickly Brice’s mentorship official I think like if I went out and did it myself I would have figured it out but just being able to cut down that learning curve was like massive mm hmm and I guess like having him there to like bounce stuff off it gives you like a certain degree of confidence so that was easily the reason that I was as profitable as what I was so quickly yeah do you think there were other factors to it as well I mean I don’t certainly don’t want to play downplay work price you know had done for you yeah but I just know in having conversations with Brice he sort of said things like you know Nick’s just afraid if there was if it if he had have tried to train up someone else you know he’d probably could have like ten people so who wouldn’t be able to do what yeah I mean I’m sure I have some sort of like skill in what I’m doing like it’s just something it’s a game that suits my personality and I mean that’s probably half the reason that he was like I guess I wouldn’t say I was pressuring me to start trading but it was like ah dude like you should really give this a go I think he’d be good at it so like he obviously saw something in me that he thought I’d be good at it and I know his problem he might have been surprised that I was I picked it up so quickly yeah what are some of the things which he think you do do well like what would you say something your strengths as a trader the risk management probably like just cutting losers quickly I think that’s something that is like you were saying in that Rambo interview like learning to lose like I’ve always just been able to take losses and it not like affect me too much so I think like a lot of people comment like when I post my things it like all like he losers are always so small it’s just because like if I start to say red on a trade I’m just out like there’s no ifs or buts about it really there’s no point fighting it it’s like I might be you know fading a stock like say if something’s like too far from there you up or whatever and I’ll start shorting it and then like it keeps going against me like I’m not trying I’m not holding stuff on the front side of a move like I’ll just get out and then try it again in like 10 minutes if it goes further so just cutting losses and like knowing when to give up the fight I guess what do you mean by the front side of the move so basically there’s entry’ aliy been like any evidence to suggest that it’s gonna go down like sometimes I’m just too early on the trade like to fade mm hmm whether it be something that’s like tanking and I’m like trying to buy for a reversal to veer up or something just being in too early instead of entering like once there’s been like an obvious signal that the flow is about to um is about to turn yeah do you find that you’re often getting in before the moves kind of happened or what do you mean so so let’s say you have a level which you’ve identified is kind of like a key level which you think is going to trade and continue to move past yeah do you often buy or sell enter an anticipation of that level trading or do you sort of jump it when everyone else is jumping in probably when everyone else is jumping in like a I’m not I wouldn’t say I’m like a huge like charting guy I’m probably more like watching the tape and order flow it’s sort of what I do more so than like worried about levels as much okay you even get like levels though that you’ll you’ll see in the in the order book like at a certain price you’ll just see that it’s just someone keeps buying at that price yeah and there’s sort of patterns which you look for in the order flow yeah I mean so like you’re saying if you see there’s a buyer at this particular level or whatever and you know you feel like it’s starting to get a bit heavy and he’s like taking all you can hate then I’ll just be watching that level and then if he if the buyer drops it’s a good opportunity to short because you know everyone else is gonna see that and then people probably rush to sell because no buy there anymore yeah so yeah look at that stuff okay now I asked you just before what are some of your kind of strengths as a trader yeah how about on the flip side like what are some of the some of your weaknesses I guess you could say I know you often say in your your trading reports I was stubborn on this trade or yeah yeah I one of my weaknesses is deaf I’m just a short stuff too much like I’m fighting a losing battle doing that because everyone just wants to buy like it’s just human nature to want to buy not not the other way around so I need to get better at instead of you know I might see a positive news catalyst and then instead of buying it when that’s the obvious trade I’m like finding areas I got all where can I short this so I need to just trade with the with the flow rather than again so that’s something that I need to improve on other weaknesses like I don’t know maybe I’m too self like to self critical and maybe I just need to like relax on being so harsh on myself when like I don’t get a trade right and just kind of relax a little bit more do you find that it ever throws you off for the rest of the day like if you let’s say stuff up a few trades on the open or make some silly moves I mean it annoys me but like not as bad as if like the internet drops out that’s like the worst thing yeah like if I have like technical issues like that will throw me off like that I’ll just go crazy if like you know an order fails or something like that like that stuff just grinds my gears like big time yeah do you know that we are the whole cluster me house has your current set up working for you in where I’m staying with you yeah yeah it’s it does the job I’m not as comfortable as as being like at at home I’ve back in Texas but yeah yeah just need a chair and a desk and some screens it’s fine yeah and do you see yourself like a loss limit for the day like no nothing like that no anyway like there’s I used to kind of just step away if I was down but then like I’ve got a lot better just grinding back through the day so I’m saw as hunting but then it’s like if I’m down like for example on Friday I think I was down like 2200 bucks or whatever and like just nothing was working in the market it’s pretty dead I’m just like if I try and you know take any more trades today like this is just gonna get worse I’m just gonna be paying more and brokerage so I’ll identify when enough is enough but I won’t like there’s no like a loss limit that I say yeah yeah so you don’t have a fixed amount it’s more just how you’re feeling exactly yeah yeah okay you know based on your experience as a trader what are some of the things which he think maybe more amateur traders could work on or could do to hilt themselves and prove like what’s been really key for you obviously having a mentor was was a big help but you know besides that some things which he you know traders can do on their own well what comes to mind it’s a tough question what about like the trader reports have they been beneficial for you I know I’ve kind of stopped doing them like part out of laziness and part out of like I’d not sure like how much value I’m getting out of them but yeah I mean that’s always a good thing I think yeah like having a mentor is key like if you were starting out today yep from scratch like how would you try and get to the position you’re in now quickly as possible I guess I would say like just focus on trying to do one thing and do it well but that’s how I became good right like I’ll just do this one trade that I knew worked and I had confidence doing it and I increased my size and then that just buys you the time to start finding like other stuff like overtime it just it’s just a game of pattern recognition right so the more you’re sitting in front of the screens the more you’re absorbing like information and like living and breathing you’ll just pick up these other patterns and and yeah you’re just naturally adapt to other stuff I think like for a lot of people as well like I’m not sure that trading is necessarily their passion they’re like they like the idea of I’m a day trader I’ll trade for an hour and then I’ll go to the beach and you know have lots of money and stuff but it’s not like I think if you want to be good you’ve got to treat it like any other nine to five job like it’s seriously not here to I could play around yeah you know certainly a group of people who sort of see it as what’s the right word for it kind of like a kind of like a freedom sort of yeah a path to freedom right yeah is it prison yeah yeah you know like you said you’re in front of the screens from I don’t know what time do you normally get in front of the screens like 7 a. m: 7 a. m. yeah ok about then and then the market doesn’t open well to reopens 9: 50 right yeah opens at 10 o’clock yeah yeah so yeah I’m like just constantly there like I don’t even eat lunch don’t you know yes some of the traders at the firm don’t either yeah I don’t know how they do it I get so hungry yeah I mean I wasn’t always in my desk but I don’t know yeah can’t be skipping lunch I get between a man and his hey what’s good and Gekko say he’s got that quote doesn’t he I was for wimps though I don’t know I can’t remember I think a while since I say no you know what you doing tonight watch Wall Street that’s it why do you think most traders most traders don’t succeed I guess you probably outlined some of the reasons I think this part part of the reason life I think big reason for success is like you just have to be passionate about it right I you know when I go and hang out with like Bryce or Stan or whatever like go have a beer like we’re just constantly talking about trading we’re not talking about like the weather or anything like that we’re just like we live abrade the stuff so and I just don’t think like for a lot of people work it’s probably not that stimulating like interesting for them like they’re just doing it because like you said they’re looking for a path to freedom but I don’t think that’s the right approach to take like you genuinely have to be like passionate and interested in yeah like in what’s going on that’s it like you can make a fortune doing pretty much anything yeah you know you just got to be at the top of whatever that industry or that game or whatever you’re playing in yeah you know the people at the top of anything are making a lot of money yeah so to think that you should only be a trader because you’re going to make a lot of money I think is kind of flawed yeah leave you look at all the like you know successful business owners around the world like you know you’re Bill Gates and you know even a lot musk and stuff like these guys are just living and breathing like what they’re doing like they just love it so yeah that they’re like I don’t think of trading as a job like it’s just something I enjoy to do and the positive benefit of it is I make money doing it yeah I think I come here if you’ve said this to me in the past or I saw you sign it to someone else but you think that it’s it’s really beneficial just sort of throw yourself into it yeah a hundred getting thanked too many people try and like over plan starting but you’ve just gotta like go and do it do you know what I mean there’s no point like beating around the bush and like I get a lot of people asking me like what’s my strategy and like I mean it’s like a fair enough question but I always think like my strategies to make money like I don’t have a strategy I could it’s just to make money but yeah people just want to be like want to develop like this black box type way about like going in and trading like where I can just put this trade on and then have a stoploss here and this is how it will work kind of thing and make it like all mathematical but I think you’ve just gotta like go in and immerse yourself and do it you know yeah like I’m not saying like there’s obviously plenty of room for that and a lot of people are successful doing that I know you’re so but like for the most part like especially for myself like I’m not that smart so I’ll like let the smart people do the valve his stuff and like I’ll just do what I’m good at yeah and I said as well like some of the people who hit me up who listen to the podcast and that they’ll say oh you know I’ve been paper trading for the past two years yeah yeah just like man that’s that’s overkill I also think paper trading that’s like the worst thing you can do because like it’s like you don’t it completely changes like once you have risk on you know you can paper trading allows you to like mask your deficiencies very easily because you can be like down two grand on a paper trade and you’re like oh I’ll just hold it cuz no ramifications and then you’re up and then you think you’re a profitable trader but like that’s not the case yeah yeah absolutely I would never like recommend like any one paper treads I just do it they even if it’s for a couple of bucks I just have some risk on because you just have to learn how to manage that feeling yeah just get a little bit of skin in the game exactly yeah I mean you don’t have to be you know hitting huge size no but just put even if it’s like you know five dollars it tickles ya know like a dollar a tick exactly you’re not gonna be like you’re probably not gonna cover your brokerage but at least you get the feeling for the process of doing a trade even just getting good at order execution like because there’s a lot of you know I’m pretty quick it like executing orders and I know you like a lot of other data as I speak to like pretty good at that but I think that’s also an area where people aren’t as good so if your paper trading like you’re not learning those skills and yeah you’re just better off having some skin in the game yeah how do you deal with that but the vast execution like do you set up hotkeys or anything like that do you have any tricks they’re not really like I just I do have like a shortcut to bring up like buy and sell tickets but then from there it’s all like manually typing in the ticker code the volume and price but yeah the beginning I just before that open about like 955 I’ll bring up like five buy tickets and five sell tickets and then I’ll pre populate the ones I think I’m gonna trade and then yeah just adjust from there okay and how many stocks would you be trading on any given day like you said earlier on that you normally have a list of about 40 yep how many of those are you typically actually gonna trade probably like 8 to 10 maybe on average but I genuine so I generally find that my best days are when I’m trading less names but also like when there’s days where there’s not as much doing you’ve kind of got to go out and find more stuff like you might take 12 trades but you might only be making like three or four hundred dollars on each trade and then a couple of them are losses so you just have to trade them to get you like pianola mm hmm if not much is happening yeah and those stocks where you know you say on some of your best days you’re trading less yeah those stocks that you are trading on the days you trade unless a typically sort of in and out of those sort of trying to sometimes but I think it’s more as there’ll be a huge catalyst in a huge like obvious catalyst in these particular stocks so you can just afford to dedicate your entire like time to watching those like there’s no point going out and like wasting time watching something else so yeah um now I know you get a few questions from people who follow you on twitter and yeah that type of thing are there any questions which pop up time and time again which you get asked frequently besides what’s is that one comes up a fair bit like none that like spring to mind really I get a lot of you know there are what reading are there any like books or do you have a blog or something like that and I usually always I point people to read Bella’s books like one good trade in the playbook they’re awesome and pretty much how I’ve modeled myself in terms of like developing a list of stocks in play and I guess to really nail down the process of of what I do each morning kind of thing and I just make it you know very structured do you think there are any questions which I’ve missed or should have asked you about like are there any topics which you’d like to speak about which you haven’t done yet nothing that comes to mind and go what about uh what about poker yeah I think when we were speaking like the other week you said that you think trading is a lot like poker in many respects cent yeah what do you think of the the similarities there probably psychology like I personally think that trading is probably 95 percent psychology and maybe 5 percent skill and also there’s just like other comparisons like I wrote a little like note about it in like on Twitter and posted it about my comp trade and like you know thinking through the trade a little bit more in the same way that the best poker players will think through the hand you know they’re they’re not just like they don’t care or they care what cards they have but they’re also thinking you know what cards is that good what Zach I have what does he have like what’s his you know range like what what could he be doing here and then he’s thinking the same stuff like Oh what is he thinking that I’m thinking and like and the point is like they just go into a lot of detail and think about like all these different scenarios and I think that’s something I need to do better up kind of thinking through the trade a little bit more like being big picture like in that Cobb trade understanding it’s in a liquid stock you know they’re gonna have to sell this thing for days it was bad news I could come effectively company breaking news so yeah just thinking bigger picture instead of like you know being the kid in the candy shop and like taking the trade off just because I come up seven grand or whatever yeah so so what are some of the things you’re trying to get better at like do you have like do you have specific goals or anything like that yeah I want to like really like nail a poss trade and you know just basically hold for for longer like I made some strides in that department like after I wrote that little thing on Kaba had like a decent trade in a old day when they had a profit downgrade and like I held for 35 minutes instead of 20 minutes I could pat myself on the back but again like out way too quick I think I shorted an $8 30 and covered on average around like 790 and the thing went to like seven dollars and five cents I just held you to like another hour do you know what I mean sir yeah yeah just like left a ton of profit on the table there was a quality part isn’t it exactly yeah so I think I I want to set myself like a goal to if I’ve identified okay this is an A+ trade I want to make it like my goal to hold for at least an hour and then reassess so like hands behind my back the only reason I’m covering this position is if it goes against me I like early and then yeah just reassess stuff at 11: 00 yeah yeah I guess in doing that you kind of sacrifice quite a bit of profit yeah that’s that’s also I did it that the other day and I think sonic healthcare it was up on like a broker upgrade i was fading it it looked really nice and i held for about an hour and i was up like maybe Shh maybe three to two and a half grand or something on the trade and I’m like okay like I’m just gonna hold this like this things going lower how to plan I’ll take half off at 26 bucks and then take the rest off at 25 75 and then yeah just reversed and then yeah I’m losing like a grand on the trade so it was like a pretty decent sized profit swing so that’s frustrating but again that comes down to like you know that’s not an A+ trade that’s an A+ scalp for me but it’s not an A+ trade because again I’m like fighting momentum like it’s been upgraded people are trying to buy the thing and I’m fading it like it’s not something that you should that I should have been holding yeah all day yeah that totally makes sense I think that’s it is there anything else you wanted to add no I think I think I’m good appreciate your having me there no no worries man I was gonna ask do you plan on starting a blog sort of been in the back of your mind yeah I’ve got like I’m not very good with like tech okay websites and stuff I got like a I don’t even know what it’s called but the Word. Press yeah oh yeah you know I’d like started like tinkering around with it okay yeah I haven’t haven’t really got it very far with it because I just like and I’m trading I’m at my screens like 10 9 to 10 hours a day yeah and then to like do that in my spare time like it’s probably a little bit much so I’ve kind of thought oh maybe I’ll just like any blog post that I want to write I’ll just write it in like notepad or whatever and stick it on Twitter like like I have been doing yet because that’s just easier for me okay cool well if someone does want to follow you on twitter what is your yeah it’s long horn capital yeah at Longhorn capital capital yeah cool all right Nick what brush up man No thank you very much thanks have you met you..
Before putting your money anywhere near this (or even paper trading it with your time) make sure you have your fundementals down. You can download the (free) audiobook Trading in the Zone: Master the Market which will make sure you have a good foundation for everything else.